Parenting with Peace, Planning and Purpose with Leonne Sherr

In this episode of "Chat with Nat: Conversations That Count," host Natalie welcomes Leonne Sherr, founder of The WonderMama and creator of The WonderMama Compass™ and Calm Before the Monday™. Together, they discuss breaking generational cycles, cultivating calm and intentional leadership in parenting, and the importance of safe spaces for parents. Leonne shares her journey as a single mom, the value of starting where you are, and practical strategies for moving from reactivity to connection—emphasizing emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and building a legacy of steadiness and resilience at home.

What you will hear:

• Overview of attachment theory and its significance in relationships.
• Explanation of different attachment styles: secure, anxious-preoccupied, avoidant, and their origins in childhood experiences.
• The impact of attachment styles on romantic relationships, parenting, and workplace dynamics.
• Discussion on the possibility of changing attachment styles over time through awareness and effort.
• The role of emotional attunement and radical honesty in fostering authentic connections.
• Exploration of how attachment styles influence financial behaviors and decision-making.
• The connection between emotional regulation and attachment styles, including coping mechanisms for overwhelming emotions.
• Insights on the importance of self-awareness and understanding personal needs in relationships.
• The effects of midlife changes on women's attachment styles and relationship dynamics.
• Strategies for building healthier relationships through clear communication of values and needs.
  
  

Connect with Leonne Sherr:
Website: www.TheWonderMama.com

Community: https://www.skool.com/the-wondermama-cycle-breakers-5827

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Transcript

1:00:00

(Upbeat Music) Hey friends, welcome back to Chat With Nat, conversations that count, where we talk real life, real money, and real strategies to build wealth without worry. Today's episode is brought to you by Casa de Confidence Productions. Julie and Dan Collins are a powerhouse team making podcasters like myself look and sound better every single day. If you've ever been curious about podcasting, especially for women, podcasters, I encourage you to visit their website, casa de confidence dot website to learn more and connect with them. All right, let's jump into this week's episode and starting out with our money tip of the week. This week's money tip comes straight from something that today's guest reflected back to me and it honestly blessed me. She said she heard on my podcast, your money must have a job. You have to tell it where it's going or it will find its own way. Listen, that's the entire game. Money without intention becomes money without direction and calm financial leadership creates calm homes. Assign your dollars jobs, every single one of them, don't let them wander. I'm so excited to have today's guest here. She is someone whose work is reshaping how families lead, connect and break generational patterns. Leon, Cher and I met a couple of months ago now through an amazing mastermind group we're a part of, the Moxie tribe and it's our Moxie mindset group. So shout out to the Moxie team that's listening to this, but I'm just honored and blessed to have met her, but also to have her here today. So let me share a little bit about her and then we'll jump into the details of the conversation. So Leon is the founder of the Wonder Mama and creator of the Wonder Mama Compass and Calm Before the Monday. Through her grounded, get transformative approach, she guides parents to move beyond reactivity into calm, confident and connected leadership. Cultivating homes defined by steadiness, emotional intelligence and intentional legacy. You can already tell this episode is gonna hit your heart and your home and I want you to listen through this lens. Where am I reacting and where do I want to start leading? Because parenting requires leadership. Just like I talk about, your money requires leadership. It's that same calm, intentional presence. Leon teaches for families. It's the same approach that I teach with wealth. There can be connections through so many different things. So with that, let's get into this powerful conversation. Leon, welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you here. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. And I also, that tip, I actually use it in conversations where our parents talk about money. You know, I say, hey, you know, my incredible friend Natalie shared this one tip and it draws a picture. And so it's about leadership, isn't it? It's leading your money and leading your family. And all of that comes from leading yourself. And when we do, when we know how to do it, some of us haven't been taught how or what options we have. But when we can just make tiny little tweaks, everything just starts to fall into place. Yeah, you're exactly right. I have people tell me all the time, well, if I give all my money a job, how do I have any fun? Like if all my money is assigned to pay bills and I'm like, no, no, part of your money should have the job of fun, right? You should have those line items in your budget. So they all have a job, but some of them are for the extracurriculars, the travel, all the different kinds of things. So you're exactly right. It is about leadership. And I think you made a really good point right there. We're not all taught the different options we have and not just talking about money in life. There's so many different ways to parent. There's so many different ways to build a home, to build a family, to build a career, a company, whatever it might be. And yeah, I think we can get so singularly focused sometimes that on the task that we miss actually leading ourselves and others and growing ourselves and others along the way. And I love that about the work that you do. So let me kick this off by asking what inspired you to create the Wonder Mama and your frameworks. The truth, I built what I had needed is the truth. I built what I needed. I went as a single mom. Many, many years ago, I needed somebody that I could trust who I could come to and say, I really don't know what I'm doing. That would hold space for me. And so I needed to be that. So that's where it started. And over time, I've built tools and frameworks that worked for me and shared them. Hey, this works for me. And the more people that helped made me go deeper, learn more, study harder, talk to more thought leaders, talk to more physicians and coaches and therapists and read more books until I realized that there were things that we, tools that we all could benefit from. And that's really where the Wonder Mama came from is so many, so many parents need support. So many parents need a safe space to land and say, this is where I am and I have no idea where to go. And I think that that's foundational for everybody, right? We all need to start where we are instead of comparing ourselves to where we see others. Because that's not our reality. So I like to start, I had to start where I was, I had to start from the start. And for many parents, if I may just roll into it, for many parents, it's, I am overwhelmed. I have too much going on and I don't have time to do work. I don't even know what the work would be, which is why Comm Before The Monday came out at all. And actually designed Comm Before The Monday for entrepreneur parents, right? Because I'm an entrepreneur parent, I'm an empty nester and I'm a grandma. So I designed the whole system based on what I needed and what the clients that I met was meeting with needed and something stripped down and something that would honor the life that we're all actually living, not my life, not your life, but we could design our time the way we needed to. So anyway, that's, we have to start where we are. And I needed, this is what I needed a long time ago. And since I didn't have it, I thought I would build it. I love it. So you mentioned a couple of things that caught my ears. And the first one is, it's what you needed that safe space where you trusted to be able to say, I have no idea what I'm doing. And too often, oh my gosh, I've also been a single mom for years and years and I related with that so much. And so I'll speak from myself instead of just speaking in general for what I've observed is there were times I desperately needed somebody I could talk to just to release and reset. There were times I needed somebody that could give me advice that I felt like wasn't going to judge me. And I am very type A, I am a D, a very hard D, whatever, if you're familiar with the different personality things, if you're listening to this. And so for me to be able to admit that there was some place that I knew I wasn't doing the best I could or I had no idea where to even start, that was a non-starter, I'll say it that way. And that's part of growth, personal growth. And of course feeling like you have a place you can trust and lean into for sure. But a lot of times I just kept going, just pushing through it. And I have an amazing 24 year old son. Clearly I got some things, many things right along the way, but his parents also are lens that looks backwards. It seems to always target the places we feel like we felt or we fell short or we could have, should have, would have. And that's why I think that stood out to me so much is there's so much value in that. And I think even friends I have that have different personalities and stuff to say, I don't know what I'm doing is like admitting failure or owning, I'm a bad parent. Or, and so they don't do it. So how do you kind of encourage that process or what would you recommend for somebody who's like, man, I sure could use some help, but I'm struggling to admit that I need help? Yeah, well, that's such a big important question. First thing I would say is you have to resonate with somebody. So if my voice or not's voice resonates with you as a safe space, ask people, is there anywhere that you feel safe? Even that's a vulnerable question, but you need to find what feels safe for you to lay down all of those filters and walls and masks that we wear when we keep going. That when you said just keep going and I don't know what popped in my head, but like, did you dad? No, I had somebody said that, but did you dad? No, no, and my kids are great. However, that lens, that backward lens, it didn't have to be so hard. So finding a space where you can learn new ways of doing the things that you do so that you can do them better, because I believe that as a mom, you not, I'm gonna speak between the two of us and hopefully all of the listeners will understand this, is you already know, you already know what you need to do. You might not just know how. A lot of us know the what and the why, but not the how. And so safe spaces and communities and landing with somebody who has walked the walk and has built some tools and knows a different way is a really great way to start. You don't need someone to come in and tell you what to do. What you need is somebody to come in and say, what are you doing and what does it feel like and what would better feel like to you? That's where we start. We don't start with like, oh, here comes Leon and she's gonna tell me how to fix my life. That's not true. I'm going to sit with you and ask you what's going on? What would feel better and what do you feel needs to be changed? And then I'm gonna share what I know with permission because that's how we actually grow. We don't need more advice. We don't need somebody to, we don't need to be in spaces where we feel judged. We need new perspectives and new tools to do what we know we need in our lives. I love that answer. I'm gonna sit there for a second. I love that answer. Because we often think it is about comparison. If I admit I'm struggling in this area, number one, they're gonna judge me. Number two, they're gonna tell me that I need to do it this way, that way, or the other. Or our frame of reference is maybe from the parents we had who were just doing the best with what they had as well, which came from their parents who did the best they knew with what they had. Like it's a generational thing, but the world is constantly changing. The world in general, full stop. Then on top of that, expectations, schedules, two parents working in the homes, right? Like that really happened during your and my generation. Now it's the norm, but it also brings with it a lot of additional responsibility. And then you're trying to figure out a household. You're trying to figure out how to step back into that household at the end of the day with positivity, energy, joy, and pour into your family, right? So there's not just one answer. And I loved when you said, what would better feel like to you? Because it's not about what worked in your home or my home or somebody else's home. It's that person. What are they dealing with? What's on their plate? What's weighing them down? And here's the thing. I said, like, I would just push through and just do my best to figure it out. Cause I didn't wanna admit that I wasn't capable, right? That's what would go through my mind. I'm not capable. So I don't wanna admit that. So I just keep going. And yet while my son turned out great, I think it could have been better in some areas because my carrying that weight, my pushing through, that affects them as well, whether you realize it or not. Children are so intuitive because they haven't gotten into the world where there's the expectation and the roles you step into and the responsibilities that come with it. They go by what they feel innately. We would step into adulthood. And I think that a little bit gets shaved off, which I don't think should, but life can kind of impact that when you become an adult. And so if you're carrying that, your kids are feeling it. And they have no clue what it is they're feeling, but they feel it. And so that can carry things forward. And then I think the other thing you said that I wanna touch on before we get into the next question, which I'm excited to talk about too, is you mentioned you created what you needed back in the day. And in the coaching world, in the entrepreneur world, whenever you're stepping into creating a business that comes from passion within you or a purpose or something you're feeling called to, there's always that question of what qualifies you or what qualifies me, right? You may be asking that of yourself. You may be having conversations with other entrepreneurs getting to them. You're like, what qualifies you? You know what qualifies you? That you've been there, that you've been there. I believe higher education is a great thing for people to step into. I do not believe it is always necessary. I believe that life experience in a lot of areas is what qualifies you. And I've heard in many different ways, it said that you are uniquely qualified for the work you do because you're helping the person you used to be. You're helping the person you used to be. And that's, to me, that's what you said there. And I thought that was beautiful because I also think it plants the seed of this is a safe space. And this is somebody I can trust more than, hey, go find a parenting specialist or go to a family counselor, right? Because they, and I'm not saying anything bad to those of you are, I am a full-on believer in counseling and therapy. I have stepped into that so many times in my life and it has been a blessing beyond belief. So I'm not bashing that whatsoever. But when you have somebody who is resistant to that because of the degree on the wall or the letters behind the name of, I don't know this person at all. And they're gonna give me that clinical conversation which they don't all do. Again, I'm not bashing that. But when you're looking for that ongoing coaching, that person that's been where you're at, it's often found in programs like yours. So. Often, yes. And I don't think any of us are immune to comparison or fear of being judged because I did build what I needed, but I went and got my credentials first because I didn't want anybody to question it. Actually, I learned a lot doing that, going through coaching certifications and through the ICF and all of those things. But the truth is exactly what you said. The truth is exactly that. Unless you have lived a life that has hungered for the need that you're filling, it's harder to connect to it. As a parent, there's billions of us out here. Not all of us are willing to say we're really struggling. But can I take a little side note? I don't even know what you're going to ask, Nis. But a few, about a month and a half ago, I posted about a client that I was working with who was single-bombed. And I was feeling her deeply because I recognized her in my old life. But her son, who is nine, was getting in trouble in school. A lot of trouble in school. Every day he went in, he was disruptive, he was argumentative, it was just really bad. And he was mixing with a group of like troublemakers at school. And they were laughing and they were problems. And so he spent a lot of time in the principal's office. A lot of time, she was getting calls all day, every day, at work, having to leave school. He's expelled, he's nine. I'm like, okay, I keep going back to he's nine. And she was like, and he's on punishment, and he's this, and I'm just taking this away, and it's always a fight. And I was like, can I ask you a question, Mom? Who's on his side? I'm not saying. I'm not saying that he doesn't need to be accountable for behaviors that are unacceptable. I'm not saying that he doesn't need to speak kindly and all of those things, but where is his peace? So look through the lens of this nine-year-old little boy. Anyway, she began to set some boundaries, speaking to him differently, meeting him where he was, asking him about his day and became a safe space for him. Because she was just, she was working so hard just to make everything right, that everything was so hard. So fast track, and I'm telling this really super condensed, but just a few tweaks in the conversation that she was having honoring herself and creating boundaries around the relationship that she wanted with her nine-year-old son. Fast track to us meeting this week, or saying she hasn't gotten a call from the school in three weeks and he's coming home and smiling. And yes, he still pushes back against the boundaries, but it's different because she's able to hold steady. And that is her repairing in the moment with her son. I'm sorry, I yelled at you. I yelled at you because I have big feelings too. And when you behave this way, it makes me feel that way, not you're being bad. This behavior makes me feel so just changing the conversation in this one little shift that this mom who was terrified to say she needed help just made these few tweaks and they have a ways to go, but it's better. And for her and for her son, her beautiful nine-year-old son, things are better. And that's what better looked like for them. And she didn't have access to those things. She was only doing what she knew. I think that's it in action. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, gosh, what I heard from that is that, and it made me stop and think like, right as parents, we're like, okay, this is what a parent's supposed to do. This is how a parent's supposed to show up. And when they get in trouble, okay, there has to be consequences. And when they do something good, okay, there has to be praise, but sometimes with a child who is constantly maybe getting into trouble or causing disruption, things like that, your focus becomes so much on the consequences of that, that you forget the other side of it. I did go through a stage of that with my son, but I did set down very strict, like I always told my son, if you swing first, that's on you. But if they swing first, take care of business. And I don't mean go looking for it. I don't mean like, like generate conflict enough that you get somebody to do that. But my son went through a stage in middle school where he was really being bullied a lot. And he knew that, and I tell people all the time, listen, my innate reaction is to come out guns blazing either verbally, whatever it is. I have personally never been in a physical fight that I can think of, but I am very, I would if I felt like I had to, I guess is what I'm saying. But I always told my son, like, you don't start that stuff, you walk away from it. And I found him in a place that because that was the boundary and that was what I told him all the years of growing up, that when he got in middle school, he couldn't figure out how to handle it. And so he would just explode because he's like, I'm not supposed to do anything. I'm not supposed to do anything. I'm supposed to walk away. I'm supposed to walk away. And I almost, it was almost like I put handcuffs on him to stand up for himself. And there was a time he just completely lost it at school to a kid who had been antagonizing him almost the entire year. And he finally got up, walked across the classroom and slapped the kid across the face. And it started a big physical altercation. The glass window on an oven at the junior high school may or may not have been shattered. And so there had been little things. I'd gotten the calls from the school, all the things like you were saying. And I remember when he called me from the school and told me, I was like, oh my gosh. And this is when I had moved us into a one bedroom apartment when he was nine. We were just about to move into a two bedroom apartment. Things were getting better. But I was like, how am I gonna afford to pay for a new oven for the school? How's this? I instantly go into that. And how am I going to, what are the consequences gonna be for this? By the time he got home, we sat down and I didn't know what to do. So I just listened to my son. And he was probably 12, maybe 13. And he said, well, I just, I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't know what to do. And I could relate to that feeling in my own life in different ways. And so that's where we really sat down. I said, look, here's the deal. I am always gonna have your back. Like I expect you to go to school. I expect you to do a good job. I expect you to not be an instigator, but I am gonna show up for you. And I am gonna have your back. And what I realized is he needed to see that more from me. He had gotten a little bit of a reputation. And so he was the first one to get blamed in any situation, even when it wasn't him. And I started going to the school and standing up for him when he was right. And I also went to the school and held his feet to the carpet when he was wrong. But it changed our relationship. And just saying, look, here's some different ways you can handle that. Here's some, but at the end of the day, it was like, look, if you start it, I think the words that came out of my mouth, Leon, were if you start it, mama will finish it. But if they start it, you finish it. And I'm not saying that's the right way to say it, but that was kind of that hard and fast I'd given him. And so it kind of paralyzed him in figuring out how do I navigate through these things in ways? And how do I ask my mom for help until it was this big thing, right? So I love that you talked about just changing a few things, having a conversation. And like you said after the first question, when I talked to my clients, I said, what does better look like for you? It's also us doing that with our children. What does better look like for them? And where's the bridge between those two things? Which leads me to the next thing. That was a perfect lead in. You said, can I sideline? It was a perfect lead in. Is what do you think keeps parents and families so reactive today? What's going on that we're reacting to things rather than maybe planning ahead or structuring before things come to the table? Yes, it's so fast. Everything is so fast. We have to, we're asked to respond to so many things all at once. So the only thing we can do is react. Mom, I need this. At work, we need that. I have to do this. I have to end. We move so quickly. Right now I'm looking at two cell phones and iPad, a laptop and I am very, very accessible. Responsive is where I wanna be. But if I'm not careful, right? And so this is just peeling back to me because I am intentional about this. I'm not careful. I will become very reactive, not because of any other thing. But unless I'm really intentional about my time and so I'm talking about me again, hold on. Unless I'm really intentional about my time, I will become reactive because there is so much being asked of me. So as parents, we have a lot going. We are working on doing the best we can to provide an environment for our children to grow up to be strong, confident decision makers in life. And we want them to have a good education. We want them to have a good home. And people are bending over backwards because we have become a highly instant gratification society and I coach globally. And so this is a global thing. It's not just in the US. I coach people in almost every country. And this is, everything is so fast. And we're comparing ourselves to everybody who appeared to have it all together. And we're seeing everybody's highlight reel on social media or on however we're experiencing it. And if we're not experiencing it, we're missing out on something. And so there's always this feeling of being behind or lacking in something. And so I really, really highly invite everybody to slow down and be really intentional. Take your calendar off electronics. Use your electronic calendar, that's fine. But plan, journal, do something to get really quiet and slow down and decide what you want everything to look like so that you know that you're not behind. But unless we take ourselves just a little bit away we need to use our tools. We definitely need to use our tools. We need all of the things, but we have to be, remember that we're human. That we need to reconnect with this self. And we need our children to see what that looks like because they mirror everything we do. Even our grown children, they're watching. Even now grandchildren, if we don't intentionally pull back, slow it down and decide how we want to design our lives and our situation, everything is gonna move very fast. AI moves very quickly. Our phones are faster, our cameras are better, our internet's moving quicker, social media. Now it's all about content and it's instant gratification. People don't even like to read stuff. They want a video and they don't need a video to be very long. They want it to be really, really short because we're out of time. And then people are exhausted. So they sit in the doom scroll while their children are saying,"Daddy, Mommy, Daddy, Mommy." That happens a lot. So I could jump around and be so random like I'm being with this answer. But I think my final answer here is that we are caught up in the vortex of really fast. And while we can't stop it, we have to have a pause button to slow it down and make sure that we are aligned with the life we want to actually live. Yeah, I think that's so important. I have really tried this year. I'm not gonna say I've tried. I've done a good job this year. Do I still have work to do? Absolutely. But I've done a good job this year of actually writing down, not just in my head, oh yeah, I need to make sure I spend time with my family. So those of you listening, if you're new to this show, I am a caretaker for my elderly parents who live with me, which is like having, and I mean this, I do not mean this in any disregard to my parents, but if you've been a parent of toddlers, you will understand this. It is like having fully grown adult toddlers and not because they don't have mental capacity and they're not still capable of doing many things, but when you are responsible for another human, you're worried. Are they eating regularly? Are they eating the right things? Are they getting movement in? Is there something that could hurt them in their environment? Did they take their medication if they need to take medications and things like that? And I would be so caught up in that and the demand of building my business, the first two years my parents lived with me so that I could continue to be present and take care of them, that I wasn't being present at all. I was physically present. I was not present, connecting with them outside of all of that. I've done such a bad, I shut my schedule down at eight o'clock and from eight to 10 p.m., that is time I'm sitting with them. I'm not a big TV watcher. We might be watching family feud reruns or who knows what, but I sit down in their space with them and we talk about different things. What's going on for the week or how did their day go or, and look, they're older. They don't go a lot of places or do a lot of things, especially my mom, and but it's still just able to have that conversation. And sometimes with her, I'll just instigate a conversation by, she has dementia. And so she's not gonna remember what she did today to explain it to me, right? But I can ask her about things back when she was younger and growing up. And that does two things that helps me connect with her and it helps me learn more about her in ways that she never told me. But I think that's so important is to slow down, to actually make time like you were saying, like write it down, put it into your schedule to show up, to have those family conversations, to do what I have a ton of friends who do the one-on-one dates with their kids. They make sure that at least they try once a month, but at least once a quarter, they have like a day date. So let's say they have two kids, dad takes one, mom takes one and they go on separate day dates with those kids and the next time they flip-flop. And so they're both building those one-on-one relationships with their children. And just fostering that environment where back to what you said, when we're looking for help, we're looking for somebody we can trust and we're not gonna be judged. They're creating that for their children so that they are the safe place for their children growing up. And I think that's so important. I think one of the other things that falls into this category is that a lot of times, you specifically said this, children model what they see. Well, that carries to us. So the way we parent, now it may model in two different ways. In one sense, we may be like, I'm absolutely not doing that because my parents did it and how it made me feel or whatever. But then there's the other side that the things we do because we saw it and it's all that we knew. And then there's a lot of in between that. But those patterns we see, we're mimicking those as adults. It goes back to that, when your mom said something to me, I thought, I am never gonna say that. Do you know how many times that exact sentence my mom said came out of my mouth to my son and instantly when it came out, I was like, I did it. And so, but I did a lot of great things my mom did too. Like we patterned the good and I don't know if you'd call it bad but maybe the thing that could be improved. Yeah, yeah. Most of it's dead. A lot of it's really not. Yeah, so how, let me ask you and working for a parent through these things with parents is, how do you help them or how could you say to somebody, here's a way to start the process of looking at it. Cause maybe they just think, hey, I'm just cruising along and doing my thing, I'm busy. Hey, my kids are getting the best that I have to give. How can somebody sit down and say, this is where that's coming from or this is an area of opportunity for me with my kids. Like listening to this episode, maybe it opens some people to like, wow, I didn't realize, maybe I need to look at this. So where's the first places maybe they can look or some questions they can ask themselves. I have so many things. What's the first thing? I think it's the noticing. It's that gasp when you, when that feeling, when something flies out of your mouth or you see a response from your child or you just feel something, you just recognizing the response, right? Because we have our brain and then we have our body brain, right, and our brain and we know it. So how, when we know that noticing it, and then just pause, how could I have done that better? And then repair. If you know you could have done that better, that comment, that tone, that action, even if it was really awful, apology goes a really long way. Hey, you know what? I could have done that way better and I'm trying to work on it. I noticed it and you didn't serve that. This is why that happened inside of me and this is what I'm working on. So for me, I would say pause and notice. What do you feel in your body? You know when something really big happens and that sort of icy feeling, I'm assuming everybody has it, like that sort of, that was terrible in your whole body. That is a huge indicator that something is wrong. If it's coming in from you, you need to check it, notice it. What could I have done differently? Even if it's later, that's fine. If you notice it in your child, check it. Maybe not in that moment, like if it's a really big situation, come back, bring back the conversation. Hey, I noticed this when this, just noticing what's actually happening in your life. And the other thing is, is, you know, we carry a lot of shame. You know, I would say, I didn't have a good child bringing, that's not exactly right. I had a really challenging childhood. That doesn't mean that mine was more challenging than anyone else's, but my parents did the very best they could with what they knew. They made terrible mistakes, terrible mistakes that impacted me. My mother apologized. Mm-hmm. That went a long way to repair our relationship. My stepfather apologized. My father apologized. That went a long way. Apologized years later, because when they noticed that they had made decisions that impacted me adversely, they apologized. That's healing. That's when we have the opportunity. But we also have to do that in action for our children. They need to see that this is a skill that they too can have. It doesn't give you the free will to just go out and be awful and come back and respond. You know, apology with action, that's a real apology with no, within action is just words. We know that. We need to show that with our children. A lot of times, really busy parents, especially entrepreneurs, call me anytime I will drop anything. If you need me, you let me know. That's a really important thing. Make sure it's true. Say what you're going to do. We have ancestral, individual, and cultural traumas that we're all living through. And so, pausing and noticing are gonna go really far. Through changing the outcome to being what you and your family need. That's leadership. Yeah, I love that. And it makes me think too, it's so easy for us to use that as a, what we think is a reason for why we're doing the things we do. Let's be honest, it's an excuse. And I say that from a place of having been there personally. You know, this happened to me or that happened. That doesn't make it okay. Even if I'm not doing that exact same thing, if there's a component of that, it's not excused by what I went through. It's the owning it and doing the work to figure out, number one, how do I heal through that and then do better in the world, do better in my home, do better with my children, right? I think about, like I said in the beginning, there are so many ways I look back and think, man, I could have done better. There were times I feel like I prioritized everything over my son. And that's a very hard thing to say as a mom, especially, but as a parent. And I remember I had a huge life, literally 180 in my son's senior year of high school. And I started going to therapy counseling, whatever you wanna call it, for a few months again. This was probably the third or fourth time I'd done it in my life. What a blessing. For somebody, especially my personality, to be able to admit that I'm broken or I need help or to ask, that is so huge for me. And so I went back in there and it was my brother who said, nah, I think maybe you'll move through this a little better if you go back and talk to somebody. Cause he knew I'd done that through a couple of their experiences in my life. And so I did, and I remember talking to my counselor. So this was in 2019 and I was telling her, we'd healed through a lot of stuff. And then we were kind of talking about the direction forward, my son being a senior, he's gonna go in the Marine Corps. I'm about to be an empty nester having that conversation. I'm like, sometimes as a mom, I just look back and think I failed in so many ways. And she stopped me and she said, okay, did you not just say that your son's about to graduate high school? And did you not just say that your son has made the choice to serve his country? And I said, yeah, but, and she said, no, no, you clearly got more right than you got wrong. And it's time for you to stop and stand in a space where you see that, you can see that. Now, do you maybe need to heal or correct or apologize for some things that you recognize? Yes, but you can't look at those things and define when you have evidence of what an amazing human being you've been able to raise, right? And that was literally, it felt like a slap in the face, a wake up call that I desperately needed. I think especially in that transition from full-time parenthood to letting him go off into the world and not just off to college, off to like sign that blank check and who knows what that's gonna mean down the road. And I remember having a conversation with my son and I said, I'm sorry for the times this was going on or that was going on. And here's the whole point of me sharing that was my son looked at me and he's like, mom, I mean, I remember a few of those things. And one of the things was that I wasn't in a better situation financially to keep from having to move him into that one bedroom apartment. And that for three years I had to say no, I got help one year with Christmas because that's where I was at. And I was apology and he's like, here's the thing, mom. He's like, you see it as everything that you got wrong. And he said, but you're my hero. And he said, we were at a point, I'm trying to keep it together. He said, we were at a point where literally we were on the verge of potentially being homeless and you did what you had to do. And five years later, everything was different. And you moved me into a home where I could bring my friends during high school and a place that I could come back to, once I go away into the military. And I bring that point up because I don't want people to, and we're talking about the ways you navigate through this. It's about saying, here I was apologizing to my son and he felt all those things, he experienced all those things, but what he came out of it with was the complete opposite of what for me, that experience was like. And so our kids do learn and pick up. And when we apologize to them, we have model apologizing and then they learn that and they come and apologize to us for something. And that's when we get to model grace, that forgiveness. And that's what that conversation with my son was for me, as he was giving me grace for all the areas I thought, I broke down and failed and he acknowledged, yeah, some of those things were tough to go through. But overall, this is what I think my childhood was. This is what you modeled for me, that when life punches you in the face, you just keep going until things turn around. So. That's such a beautiful story. Thank you. You almost got me, almost took me out lady. So thank you for not. No, I kept it together better than I thought it was. Yeah, good job, good job. And it's a hundred percent true. It's a hundred percent true. What our children, so taking the time when we're tearing ourselves down with like, he could have had this or they could have had that or what they experienced was a lion, you know? Yeah. I remember sitting down, similar, sitting down at a mall, was shopping with two of my sons and they went back and forth and talked about the time that I didn't have any power in the house. I didn't have power. And I was so upset. They remember me losing it. And I put my foot through the hollow bathroom door because that's the, you know? And then I sat down with a candle and we had a picnic on the kitchen floor and all they remember is how magical that day was. And talked about how mom never moved us into the projects no matter what she fought for us. And I am just so grateful for that strength. And all I remember is being pitiful. Yeah. And that's not what they remember. They remember a lion. So that picture that we draw of ourselves in whatever situation, whatever better looks like for you, it would have been him having his own bedroom instead of a one bedroom apartment and not having to ask for help for Christmas. Or for me, it was the lights on, you know? Yeah, yeah. And not living so close to the projects for my children. But that's not what they remember, you know? And the lessons that they learned. So better for wherever you are in that moment is better. But what you're modeling for your children is really, really important. You know what I'm not proud of? I'm not proud of putting my foot through that wall because before the door, I'm not proud of that. I still see that picture. And that was more than 30 years ago. And I still remember that feeling in my body. And so when I notice that I'm close to that kind of frustration, I know that I've got to check myself because the result of me letting that go is something I'm not proud of. So that makes me better. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think back to having to be mom and dad for my son. His dad moved 1200 miles away. His dad was present in his life. They have a relationship. That was always important to me, but he wasn't here on the day-to-day. And I stepped way too far into the disciplinarian side of things before the middle school years or the beginning of the middle school years before that incident happened. And I just saw and heard my son. And it's something that I always feel bad about. I mean, I pulled out the belt a couple of times. When I was a kid, I got the belt a couple of times. And I have told him, I wish I never would have done that. And he's like, I don't know that I would have gotten the message if you hadn't. And I'm still not proud that that felt like the answer in a couple of situations. But I do remember in that same conversation with my counselor, when she said that to me, it sounds to me like you did a pretty good job, mom. Look at what he's doing. She also said, if you had changed any one of those things, he might not be going in the direction he was going. Have you ever thought of that? And I hadn't. And so that's the other side of it too, is that look, you can't take away the past. You can't change the past, right? And hopefully more good comes out of whatever because none of us are perfect. We're gonna get things wrong in every area of our lives. Sometimes every single day, we could look and say, man, I could have done that better today. Probably every day. Even if it's just that I could have eaten better today. You can find something every single day and you can focus on that. Or you can swing things around to look at exactly what you said, we did the best we knew with what we had. And if you're looking back, recognizing something that you wish you could have done better, then that's a learning opportunity. Even if it's years later, it's a learning opportunity. And the way you learn that and go back and speak with whoever else might've been involved makes it a learning opportunity for them as well. And especially if it's your kids, right? And they're stepping into parenthood. Oh my gosh, I hope that I have some impact in some areas that are better for my son when he comes to mom for advice, which I will say that's one thing I got right. I always told him, no matter what, you can talk to me. And he always has to this day. And so, okay, so I want to shift now into what are some ways or what does it look like to lead our families differently? When we recognize that we're doing the work and we're trying to make the shifts, then what does that look like when we're actually applying that? What does it look like? So I think going back to the last question, it looks like noticing and making choices. We have to make choices, choices that are aligned with who we are. Leading our family means is connection. It's honesty, honesty with ourself, making sure that we're leading ourselves and living within our own integrity and our own values. I can't tell you what your values and your integrity are because mine could be very different. But I can tell you that as humans, we need safety, we need belonging, we need connection, we need encouragement, we need boundaries, and we need accountability, and we need love. Your children need that. You know that as a parent, you know that. As a person, sometimes we forget that we need those things. We spend so much time being outward. And so the basis of all the work that I do is the inner work that somebody needs to do to build the tools, to have those tools on board, to make those decisions because life is gonna keep coming. It's gonna keep doing its thing. And how we show up for it, how we respond instead of react to it, is the leadership that our families need. And right now, we're very reactive. This is a reactive society. We're actually expected to react. But what if we did something different? And so just leaning into the fact that we have choices, like, "Oh my God, Leon, what can I do?" It's, "Yeah, Leon, what can I do?" That tiny little bit of a shift is what we need to have access to. We have to be willing to look at where we are right now. We have to be willing to question the thoughts that we're having and create choices based on that. This one makes me feel like crap. I don't know if I can say that, sorry. And this one makes me feel really good and positive and empowered. So now we have a choice, right? So, right? And then we have to recognize the patterns that we're repeating in our lives that aren't working for us. Yes. Because, right? You and I, we kept going. Some of those patterns we were repeating and we realized that we were repeating patterns but we didn't know how to break them. That's where this kind of work works. Oh, and by the way, it's never ending. A lot of people like, I've done all the work. I've read all the books. No, that's not possible because this is a lifetime. We're always going to be improving. And so don't get tired, get stronger, build that muscle, get resilient. And so embracing the fact that you're always gonna be on a mission to improve how you see life, how you show up for life, what you contribute to the life and the lives of those around you, that's how we do it. We started in our homes. We started in ourselves and we started in our homes. That's the Wonder Mama way. I don't think I've ever said it before, but it was coming. So there it is. There you go. And lastly, once we understand that we've got cycles to break, we understand that we have choices to build new ones, to build new kind of legacy for our family and then live it. And then every time something shows up better and better at dealing with it. And then modeling that behavior. I have 10 grandchildren. I wanna model this behavior. I wanna help my kids feel really good in their bodies. Oh, and they are all very different people. They parent differently. Their values, their focus on the life that they want for their children are different, every single one of them. I have to honor that. My way is not the way. Their way is the way. Whatever it better is for them. And so it's really, really a very big deal to do that. I'm very proud of my Marine and my Airmen. I'm very proud of my realtor and my finance manager and the children that they're raising are phenomenal, but never think that we don't have more work to do. There's no such thing as I've done all the work. You've done the work, now go back and start over and find the next thing. Don't get tired because there's no time for that. Get stronger, build that resilience muscle. That's how we lead with legacy for our families. And that's how we can change the future. I love that. The thought that comes to me when you talk about that is the same idea of you can't pour into somebody else from an empty cup. So like any other area, you have to fill your cup to be able to pour that into other people. So in this case, you've got to recognize within you and then you've got to do that work. And it's not overnight work. And as you said, it's never ending work. It's, okay, here are the things I'm recognizing and here's the first place I need to start. And then I'm gonna build on that. And then the world shifts or your kids get into teenagers instead of, they go from seven to 10 to 13 to 16. And it's a whole other cycle with all of a sudden, who are these kids? These are not the same kids that I had and they're not. And so it's realizing that you're ever growing, you're ever changing because and along with the world around you and so are your children. So it's re-navigating through the same things, maybe multiple times over and over, but constantly doing the work, being willing to ask for help, being willing to step into a space of the unknown and figure out what that better is for you. Or I know this is what better looks like for me. How do I get there? Taking those steps. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you and thank you for kind of mirroring all of that back. And while you were talking, I was thinking about the new chapter that popped up for me this week. I drove my son who's in the airport, to the airport and he said, "Oh, I am so looking forward to sleeping in my bed and going home." And I was like, "Oh, my home is not home anymore." And I was like, "Oh, that's a new thing. That's a new thing too." And so instead of going, "But my home is home."(Laughing) Which is the first thing, the reaction was, "I am so happy that you have a place to rest your bones that feels like home to you. I am so happy and proud of the life that you're living because that's the truth. That's more true." And it was just a minute thing, but I would say 10 years ago, I might've burst into tears. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I can feel that. I can feel that one. I love that. And that's important. Like our kids are gonna make those milestones. They're gonna take those steps and make those milestones along the way that are gonna be a little bit painful for us because it's cutting another string or it's stretching out the elastic a little further, whatever that is. And it's not gonna feel great for us initially, but you're exactly right. They're the things that we need to be proud of them for. And people ask me all the time, "Man, how do you deal with it?" And you know this, you're a mom of a Marine and an airman. How do you handle it so well that there's all this turmoil in the world? And I tell people, I'm a woman of faith. I believe in God. And I said, when my son made this choice and signed those papers, I put him in God's hands at a whole other level. And I said, I can't be there. I can't protect. And let's be honest, you can't in every moment of every day from the time they're born, you can't solely be there, but it's different when they leave home, right? And I just put him in God's hands and said, take care of him, whatever that looks like. And I had to surrender that. And I think that's what it is. You have to surrender the fact that they've created this new home, but you're right, what a blessing that he has created a space that's so comfortable for him that when he's away from you, he's not longing to be back at home. He has home, you know? And them finding their own way and their own careers as you said, the way that they parent. And you just hold space for him and you cheer him on. And let them be the teachers because what I know, I wanna lead from seeking knowledge and that is in every single interaction we have, like this conversation just today. I will mirror back to you when my children signed and joined the military decided to serve the country. It's exactly that. And I was grateful and I thank God, thank you. Thank you for making these strong, incredible men. Also trusting that whatever is gonna be is gonna be and being grateful that I had the opportunity to pour into them and knowing they're gonna make choices based on what they need to do. Not what I want for them to do, but what they need to do for their lives. Exactly right. I love that. All right. So as we wind out this episode, Leon, how can people find you and connect with you? Thank you. Thank you for that. So the best way to reach out to me is start with my website. I have a website, it's the Wonder Mama. It's the Wonder Mama, M-A-M-A.com. Start there. There are links to connect or check it out or join a community or follow me on socials or just say hi. However you want and however you need support, I can show up for you. And I really appreciate you, Nat, for giving me the opportunity to have this lovely conversation with you today. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Yes, I encourage you guys definitely go connect with Leon. You have an offering, I think, that if people are like, you know what, I need to connect and have a conversation. What does that look like? So the best way, so first of all, connecting with me based, I wanna know where you are. That's the first thing that'll happen and it's free. Have a free, set up a free consultation with me. Let's land where you are and figure out if working with me is the right way. We're gonna decide what, together, in that very first call, we're gonna decide what better looks like to you. And then once we know what better looks like to you, we'll know how best the Wonder Mama can help you. I have a private community. I have the Calm Before the Monday community where we meet every single week to be intentional about our time. And then I have the Deeper Work program called the Wonder Mama Compass where we dive deep and do the work and set you up with some incredible tools. And so there are many ways, so just meet with me and you can book that link right through the website. Awesome, perfect. And we'll have those links in the show notes as well. So you can go to the show notes and connect direct with Leon from there. As I wipe this, or wipe, as I wrap this episode down, of course we've got Nat's hot take. So here's what I have after that amazing conversation. Calm is not passive, it's power. Calm is how you reclaim your home. Calm is how you build legacy. Calm is how you make better financial decisions. Chaos will cost you emotionally and financially, but calm, it creates clarity, connection, wealth, generational change. And you deserve both a calm home and a calm wealth. And yes, my business is money and building financial wealth, but for me, wealth is so much bigger than that. Wealth is about your community. It's about what's inside the walls of your, the four walls of your home. And I don't mean things, I mean the people and the connections that you have there. So it stretches far beyond your bank account. I'm gonna challenge you guys. If you love this episode, please share it with somebody you know so they can hear about Leon and the work that she does. Connect with her and follow the Wonder Mama. Explore the Wonder Mama Compass and the Calm Before the Monday on her website. And whatever that looks like for you, you guys can connect and figure that out. I wanna thank you guys for being here and I wanna challenge you to lead your homes and your money and yourself with intention, grace, forgiveness, and love. I wanna thank you all for listening and until next time, protect your peace, protect your people, and protect your wealth.